Thank you. Perhaps the best thing a man can do, in this area, is not to look for someone that he can safely talk to but to become someone that others can safely talk to. More so to actually encourage men around us to talk to us and for us to just listen while avoiding trying to fix stuff. I am thankful that I have friends in my life that i completely trust. They truly care about me. I think they feel the same about me. They know I love them and that I am there for them. It has added so much more meaning to my life. I am grateful
I’m so sorry for what your family is going through. Your perspective here is so valuable. I’m also a child of the 70s/80s, “effortlessly stoic”, and generally upbeat. I hope I’m not being an unrealistic role model for my two sons…
One of your best essays, Terrell. I am sorry for your daughter and for your whole family. Really! Suicide takes it's toll and lasts for years. Sometimes one never quite gets over it. I say this as my first husband died by suicide, I just walked into the aftermath and have never gotten over it.
Yes, loneliness has taken over and stoicism. I "live" (guess you could call it that) with two trans people. Both were of the male gender before they transitioned. They call themselves female, yet, they exhibit all
the stoicism they were taught when they biological males. Just because they use hormones, have had laser and grow their hair long does not change the mindset. I pretty much stay to myself,THM is my only community, running is my only outlet where I can be myself.
I hope you can still continue to talk to your son and have him respond. Ten is a wonderful age. They start hiding after that be it behind the computer or on the phone. You note, Jefferson and his group had to actually sit down and write their thoughts. There was no quick response on a digital device. Change it? I have no suggestions. Only thing I can think of is to be open like you are. I have tried. I don't know if it did any good. The one I have is still influenced easily and afraid of me. (Odd?)
I've found the only way accomplish change is within oneself--yet we are talking generations. Perhaps there is no solution--only time.
Many of the members on THM had good suggestions. If they could be implemented, it would help. One has to start somewhere.
Snow showers here in Oregon. Not so cold as in other places, or so warm. The trees are in flower, as are the daffodils. There is hope! Take care! :)
The role “influencers” play today is troublesome. Too many continue to preach that aggressive “manliness” is the way to go. I remember several years ago being laughed at when I ordered quiche for lunch because “real men” don’t eat quiche. My response was that real men eat anything they damned well please
Thank you so much for speaking to this. This is how we begin - by men having these conversations openly.
I've been deeply worried about the state of men for about 15 years now. I dated them, I married one (and it took a long time to find one who fit baby-making criteria) and now I am raising one - the same age as yours, in fact. I have long viewed women as being the luckier sex for the very reason that since the 70s, we have been permitted to have more roles and emotions, while those of men have shrunk. This is not how it is supposed to be. This is not 'equality of the sexes' and I feel trading one for the other has not left us better overall; a most unpopular opinion, I assure you!
As a woman, I do not feel it is appropriate for me to help you guys out much. I can only root for you and defend you when I see male-bashing, but all this work ahead is to collectively be determined amongst yourselves. If I am mistaken here, I'd love to know how I can help beyond the raising of my own son.
If it gives you solace, know that on the other side of the pond, outside of the Puritan English world, men greet one another with hugs, walk arm in arm, and even kiss one another on the cheek. Here in Spain I see men out on the weekends - of all ages, intermingling in the parks playing a game that looks like Boche Ball or just sitting on benches or cafes together catching up. I see men arm-in-arm with their aged mothers, slowly walking with them after a meal at the same speed we did with toddlers. Here I see men more free to express a wider range of emotions, and it soothes my heart that my son can swim in these waters now. There is a humanity that remains here that has been lost in the states, and to a lesser degree in the UK - generations and sexes and lives commingling on a much more personal level. The white expat men still struggle here with how they have learned to be at home, but I do hope that my son, at least, can be spared.
So sorry Terrell, and thank you for sharing. As for the old-fashioned writing and expressiveness -- I had no idea. I definitely have an image in my head of accomplished adventurers and thinkers, but the emotional intelligence and willingness to openly share... surprising and impressive
I am so very sorry for your daughter, her friend and his family. How tragic that a 19 year old felt he had no option but to end his life. Sadly, we are facing a similar situation. My daughter’s friend committed suicide last week - just 23 years old with her whole life ahead of her. So very sad that so many feel so isolated. My heart is broken for these young people.
I’m so deeply sorry for your daughter’s loss, and for her friend’s family. My heart breaks for everyone involved. And also, I’m so glad you wrote about a topic that, as a society, we don’t talk about nearly enough. 💔
Yes, we are a stoic close to bone male class. To be open and vulnerable is to expose yourself to ridicule and harassment. In a large part this general character trait must accept substantial blame for the hardness and cruelty of today’s world. Perhaps if women can avoid absorbing these traits, on their road to cultural and professional success, they could save us from ourselves.
Oh, Terrell. This was beautiful and so well framed. I really appreciate you taking the time to write about this topic, especially during a time when it needs to be broadcast loudly, clearly, and often — when literal lives are at a stake.
I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your daughter's friend. I was about that age when I experienced the death of someone my age for the first time, and it's almost unfathomable. The transitional time between childhood and adulthood and the changing expectations and concept of identity that follow is difficult to navigate as it is. When you feel so alone that you don't believe you have a support system or anyone that actually cares enough to help you through it... It's truly tragic.
I appreciate that you are encouraging and nurturing a different pathway for your young son. I want to do the same for mine. I'm curious if you've discussed his sister's loss with him at all. And, if so, how you approached the conversation?
Hugs to all ... And I hope you're getting some relief with your plantar fasciitis. I went for my first run in almost 2 months the other day. Not expecting to be getting lots of miles in yet, but it felt good to at least start up again!
I am so very sorry about the loss of your daughter’s friend, and you’re right….we are so different today than we used to be. A couple months ago. I read a book called What Made Maddy Run: The Secret Struggles and Tragic Death of an All-American Teen. It’s a true story about a young runner who planned her own suicide by jumping off ithe top of a parking garage. She even leaves gifts for her friends and family, perhaps as an apology. It’s so very sad. When I found it, I was drawn to it because of my own struggles with loneliness.
I know it’s especially hard for men. I do fundraising every year for a race called Movember to raise awareness for men’s mental health. The suicide rates for men is climbing, I would guess because of the very point you made: we don’t talk with each other with love the way we once did. Finding groups, such as this one, certainly helps me stay in touch with others that enjoy running and talking about it. In the real world, people look at me like I’m trying to recruit them…well maybe sometimes I am, but still…I’m always looking for a fellow runner. Perhaps for some men, they don’t have an outlet or anyone they feel they can talk with.
I will admit personally when I feel most lonely and sad, I retreat and don’t talk much. Last Sunday, for instance, I was having coffee alone at church in the designated “coffee with friends and family” area after mass. I do this every Sunday after church but for some reason this time it suddenly bothered me and I felt so incredibly lonely. I rushed to my Jeep and instantly began crying. The entire rest of the day, I was running errands but was incredibly introverted. I normally talk to everyone in stores and such and I don’t recall saying a word all day. It’s not a good place to be.
How do we fix this??? I don’t even know where to start but I always am drawn to the quietest person in the room and think they need someone to just say hi and acknowledge they’re there, so I do and they seem to cheer up. That always makes my day :)
Great share... this is just the sorta content and life wisdom that belongs on a page / site that speaks to living a life healthy fit and strong. Certainly those who have lived long nuff know that one can no more disconnect the body-mind than they can the heart.
Men are taught to keep their feelings to themselves. And as you say it's never a lesson, it's just what we pick up from our culture.
A lot of problems that we have in society are because people feel alone with their thoughts and feelings. People think they are weird or weak because no one else could possibly be feeling like this.
But everyone does feel weird and odd and awkward. I doubt even the most confident people feel normal deep inside. We're all weird! lol.
My niece had a good friend who committed suicide when they were freshmen in college. I don't recall if he left a note, but no one could make sense of it. No one ever really can.
For most of us, it will be better tomorrow.
You can only imagine what this young man was carrying around. Something he could not share with anyone, not even in a note.
Confiding in someone or getting some help may have helped. It doesn't work for everyone.
Thank you. Perhaps the best thing a man can do, in this area, is not to look for someone that he can safely talk to but to become someone that others can safely talk to. More so to actually encourage men around us to talk to us and for us to just listen while avoiding trying to fix stuff. I am thankful that I have friends in my life that i completely trust. They truly care about me. I think they feel the same about me. They know I love them and that I am there for them. It has added so much more meaning to my life. I am grateful
I’m so sorry for what your family is going through. Your perspective here is so valuable. I’m also a child of the 70s/80s, “effortlessly stoic”, and generally upbeat. I hope I’m not being an unrealistic role model for my two sons…
One of your best essays, Terrell. I am sorry for your daughter and for your whole family. Really! Suicide takes it's toll and lasts for years. Sometimes one never quite gets over it. I say this as my first husband died by suicide, I just walked into the aftermath and have never gotten over it.
Yes, loneliness has taken over and stoicism. I "live" (guess you could call it that) with two trans people. Both were of the male gender before they transitioned. They call themselves female, yet, they exhibit all
the stoicism they were taught when they biological males. Just because they use hormones, have had laser and grow their hair long does not change the mindset. I pretty much stay to myself,THM is my only community, running is my only outlet where I can be myself.
I hope you can still continue to talk to your son and have him respond. Ten is a wonderful age. They start hiding after that be it behind the computer or on the phone. You note, Jefferson and his group had to actually sit down and write their thoughts. There was no quick response on a digital device. Change it? I have no suggestions. Only thing I can think of is to be open like you are. I have tried. I don't know if it did any good. The one I have is still influenced easily and afraid of me. (Odd?)
I've found the only way accomplish change is within oneself--yet we are talking generations. Perhaps there is no solution--only time.
Many of the members on THM had good suggestions. If they could be implemented, it would help. One has to start somewhere.
Snow showers here in Oregon. Not so cold as in other places, or so warm. The trees are in flower, as are the daffodils. There is hope! Take care! :)
The role “influencers” play today is troublesome. Too many continue to preach that aggressive “manliness” is the way to go. I remember several years ago being laughed at when I ordered quiche for lunch because “real men” don’t eat quiche. My response was that real men eat anything they damned well please
Thank you so much for speaking to this. This is how we begin - by men having these conversations openly.
I've been deeply worried about the state of men for about 15 years now. I dated them, I married one (and it took a long time to find one who fit baby-making criteria) and now I am raising one - the same age as yours, in fact. I have long viewed women as being the luckier sex for the very reason that since the 70s, we have been permitted to have more roles and emotions, while those of men have shrunk. This is not how it is supposed to be. This is not 'equality of the sexes' and I feel trading one for the other has not left us better overall; a most unpopular opinion, I assure you!
As a woman, I do not feel it is appropriate for me to help you guys out much. I can only root for you and defend you when I see male-bashing, but all this work ahead is to collectively be determined amongst yourselves. If I am mistaken here, I'd love to know how I can help beyond the raising of my own son.
If it gives you solace, know that on the other side of the pond, outside of the Puritan English world, men greet one another with hugs, walk arm in arm, and even kiss one another on the cheek. Here in Spain I see men out on the weekends - of all ages, intermingling in the parks playing a game that looks like Boche Ball or just sitting on benches or cafes together catching up. I see men arm-in-arm with their aged mothers, slowly walking with them after a meal at the same speed we did with toddlers. Here I see men more free to express a wider range of emotions, and it soothes my heart that my son can swim in these waters now. There is a humanity that remains here that has been lost in the states, and to a lesser degree in the UK - generations and sexes and lives commingling on a much more personal level. The white expat men still struggle here with how they have learned to be at home, but I do hope that my son, at least, can be spared.
So sorry Terrell, and thank you for sharing. As for the old-fashioned writing and expressiveness -- I had no idea. I definitely have an image in my head of accomplished adventurers and thinkers, but the emotional intelligence and willingness to openly share... surprising and impressive
Thank you for writing this, Terrell. And I’m glad your kids have you, to walk with them in this.
I am so very sorry for your daughter, her friend and his family. How tragic that a 19 year old felt he had no option but to end his life. Sadly, we are facing a similar situation. My daughter’s friend committed suicide last week - just 23 years old with her whole life ahead of her. So very sad that so many feel so isolated. My heart is broken for these young people.
I’m so deeply sorry for your daughter’s loss, and for her friend’s family. My heart breaks for everyone involved. And also, I’m so glad you wrote about a topic that, as a society, we don’t talk about nearly enough. 💔
Yes, we are a stoic close to bone male class. To be open and vulnerable is to expose yourself to ridicule and harassment. In a large part this general character trait must accept substantial blame for the hardness and cruelty of today’s world. Perhaps if women can avoid absorbing these traits, on their road to cultural and professional success, they could save us from ourselves.
Oh, Terrell. This was beautiful and so well framed. I really appreciate you taking the time to write about this topic, especially during a time when it needs to be broadcast loudly, clearly, and often — when literal lives are at a stake.
I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your daughter's friend. I was about that age when I experienced the death of someone my age for the first time, and it's almost unfathomable. The transitional time between childhood and adulthood and the changing expectations and concept of identity that follow is difficult to navigate as it is. When you feel so alone that you don't believe you have a support system or anyone that actually cares enough to help you through it... It's truly tragic.
I appreciate that you are encouraging and nurturing a different pathway for your young son. I want to do the same for mine. I'm curious if you've discussed his sister's loss with him at all. And, if so, how you approached the conversation?
Hugs to all ... And I hope you're getting some relief with your plantar fasciitis. I went for my first run in almost 2 months the other day. Not expecting to be getting lots of miles in yet, but it felt good to at least start up again!
Lots of love to you and your daughter
Excellent thoughts. Thank you very much
I am so very sorry about the loss of your daughter’s friend, and you’re right….we are so different today than we used to be. A couple months ago. I read a book called What Made Maddy Run: The Secret Struggles and Tragic Death of an All-American Teen. It’s a true story about a young runner who planned her own suicide by jumping off ithe top of a parking garage. She even leaves gifts for her friends and family, perhaps as an apology. It’s so very sad. When I found it, I was drawn to it because of my own struggles with loneliness.
I know it’s especially hard for men. I do fundraising every year for a race called Movember to raise awareness for men’s mental health. The suicide rates for men is climbing, I would guess because of the very point you made: we don’t talk with each other with love the way we once did. Finding groups, such as this one, certainly helps me stay in touch with others that enjoy running and talking about it. In the real world, people look at me like I’m trying to recruit them…well maybe sometimes I am, but still…I’m always looking for a fellow runner. Perhaps for some men, they don’t have an outlet or anyone they feel they can talk with.
I will admit personally when I feel most lonely and sad, I retreat and don’t talk much. Last Sunday, for instance, I was having coffee alone at church in the designated “coffee with friends and family” area after mass. I do this every Sunday after church but for some reason this time it suddenly bothered me and I felt so incredibly lonely. I rushed to my Jeep and instantly began crying. The entire rest of the day, I was running errands but was incredibly introverted. I normally talk to everyone in stores and such and I don’t recall saying a word all day. It’s not a good place to be.
How do we fix this??? I don’t even know where to start but I always am drawn to the quietest person in the room and think they need someone to just say hi and acknowledge they’re there, so I do and they seem to cheer up. That always makes my day :)
T,
Great share... this is just the sorta content and life wisdom that belongs on a page / site that speaks to living a life healthy fit and strong. Certainly those who have lived long nuff know that one can no more disconnect the body-mind than they can the heart.
Good stuff.., one writer to another.
To your full strength life!
Shawn
Men are taught to keep their feelings to themselves. And as you say it's never a lesson, it's just what we pick up from our culture.
A lot of problems that we have in society are because people feel alone with their thoughts and feelings. People think they are weird or weak because no one else could possibly be feeling like this.
But everyone does feel weird and odd and awkward. I doubt even the most confident people feel normal deep inside. We're all weird! lol.
My niece had a good friend who committed suicide when they were freshmen in college. I don't recall if he left a note, but no one could make sense of it. No one ever really can.
For most of us, it will be better tomorrow.
You can only imagine what this young man was carrying around. Something he could not share with anyone, not even in a note.
Confiding in someone or getting some help may have helped. It doesn't work for everyone.
It's definitely complicated.