Running coach Mary-Katherine Fleming of the Denver, Colo.-based Fitness Protection Program (and a guest on our podcast earlier this month) joins us today for our live discussion thread to answer any and all questions you have about:
How to stay motivated
How to set goals without races (and what goals should I think about)
How to prevent losing your speed
Heart-rate training, cross-training, etc.
Anything else that’s on your mind!
We’ll start our chat at 12:00 noon ET/9:00 a.m. PT, so feel free to post your questions now and MK will start answering at the top of the hour. I hope you all are having a wonderful morning so far — I’m really looking forward to your comments and questions! 😀 — Terrell
When races DO start: When a simultaneous 5k and 10K race happens, where should I stand? Don’t want to be up close so I pace with the 5k-ers, but starting too far back causes its own problems. While I try to be disciplined about not starting too fast, where to start remains an issue. Any tips?
I have a question about hill workouts - well, a little introduction to that. I got the idea of doing something similar to what Sarah Canney is doing - she is climbing the height of Everest until the end of May on her treadmill and may be somewhere else, but it is very intense. I decided to do similar, but with my runs here in "flat" North Texas. My goal is from the start of lock down on March 13th until the end of July (my bday) to "climb" Everest as well. My question is: I do understand I am getting slower by running on hills and it really does not bother me much. But would you recommend to still do some speed work on hills with alternative long runs on hills? My goal is to climb of course, but I am curious if I can still work on speed etc. Thank you!
Thank you. Just don’t want to screw a good thing up. Seems I get hurt doing speed work more than distance. Really trying to watch this time. Need a race to run however 👍
Feel really good. I do journal. The #1 thing I look forward to . Started running again back in August. Started with half mile a day.😂. I want to qualify for Boston again and keep my health at high level . I was hospitalized overnight with blood pressure problems dec 2018. I’m 63 and now it’s 125/75.
I am a big fan of the science behind Heart Rate Training - it just makes sense to gear your training based on how your body performs rather than "perceived" exertion or pace goals that might be too slow or fast for you on a particular day. I have twice used HR training successfully to get in shape after injuries/time off but once I am in shape and want to start getting faster for a marathon, I go back to the training plans I have used in the past that have nothing to do with HR because I don't know how to apply heart rate training principles beyond the building endurance stage of training. Would love some ideas on how to us my HR data to determine the pace for my tempo, interval and long runs each week. Hoping you have some knowledge in this area that you can share. My current training regime is 4 runs a week (interval, hills, tempo and long) with long bike rides the other 3 days and when gym pools are available i work in some swimming acouple times a week as well. Thanks in advance!
I have plenty! :) you'd do well in my Maintain program.
Short answer: 10k pace is the proxy for tempo pace on most plans, and the HR proxy is 2 minutes per mile faster than your 140pace, no more. 5k is 3minutes per mile faster, no more. For the half marathon you don't need anything faster than that.
Thank you! Follow up ... Using a set pace difference seems too arbitrary to me. 140hr pace for how long? for instance, i can probably do 8 min pace at 140 for a few miles but at some point hr will creep up.
Continuing with that example, if i do 8 min pace at 140 for 5 miles i should be able to drop 5 min miles in a 5K? I havent been close to 5 min pace for a mile since HS and even then I couldnt sustain that pace for a 5K.
? 140 is the heart rate cap for an easy effort run, meaning 140bpm. You should be able to do that for at least an hour without your heart rate creeping up (else you need to back way off and test the effort level out a few times).
Then, we factor in strength and there's no good formula for this. We start with generic benchmarks and move forward. The vast majority of runners I get are nowhere near an 8:00 mile for a jogging effort.
So, if your 140 pace/EE is an 8:00 mile, if I was coaching you 1:1 I would ask you to perform a Cooper test on a track, fully rested. Then we would have the paces etc we need.
Anyone I'm not training 1:1, I would say, "race a 5k and see what happens". Then we would work from there. I would need the HR and pace data from that race to determine what to work on from that point forward.
You are correct, a 5-min mile isn't reasonable! Proxies (approximations) are starting points for more nuanced conversations.
Gotcha. Bottom line, lots of variables and thus not an easy/simple answer to come up with... leading to me giving up trying to figure it out on my own and going with what I know :) ... one of these days I will get a coach to help me figure these things out. Thank you for your time and insight.
Yeah, basically once you cross the 9 minute per mile easy effort threshold, it’s time for 1:1 coaching. Unless what you are doing is working, that is! If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!
Did my 17 mile run today and wasn't planning to do your 140 test but it worked out that I did. When i was an hour in my avg pace was 825 and HR was right at 140. hadn't gone over yet. For the 17 miles my avg was 133bpm but that includes an 8 min stop when i ran into a friend and 4 water stops that lasted about 2 min each. So your advice is I need a coach to take things to the next level. I would be interested in talking to you about that. I just sent you a connection request on Linkedin.
How are you handling running right now, MK, when we can't race? What are you aiming for, and what are some goals we can aim for when there are (largely) no races on the horizon for the foreseeable future, especially now that Boston has been cancelled?
My 4th pregnancy was REALLY difficult and I was bed-bound for most 2017-2018. Am still reBuilding from that! I didn't want to race this year, not the marathon distance anyway. Doing something familiar and beloved in a body that doesn't feel familiar, just isn't fun. I want to wait until I'm fitter to race again.
Boston isn't my list. I'm claustrophobic and that race has no fallback point! You're elbow to elbow like peloton THE WHOLE TIME!!!!
My personal goals:
1. Work on strength. This is intentionally vague.
2. Get back to a place where 6miles isn't satisfying and I want to keep going
3. Get back to doubles (I LOVEevening recovery runs!)
4. Feelsharp enough to race a half.
That's me, it all has to do with making sure when I DO race, it's satisfying. I can wait.
Look at your goals for the year. If they can't exist without numbers or races, they aren't goals thatwould make you any happier even if you reach them.
Sounds crazy, right?
Let's say you qualify for Boston, then it's cancelled for Covid and you are distraught. Why? Wasn't your goal to qualify for Boston? What's your goal now, and once you reach, what next?
If a goal can't THINK (thoughtful heartfelt intelligent necessary and kind) it ain't SMART (bollox bollox bollox). Numbers can be gamed and manipulated. Goals need to be more finite, and now is a GREAT. Time to work on that!
Any tricks for running in heat now that summer is nearly upon us? I've heard that a cold shower or swim before a run to lower your core temperature can help when running in heat, but I was wondering if there are any other tips or tricks I'm missing? Heat is killing my run times!
Your body is REALLY good at adapting. Meaning, any effects from that cold shower will disappear pretty quickly; your adrenal gland is too good at maintaining homeostasis, and cold core temperatures are a bigger threat than overheating (your skin would cook long before your insides would).
Best bets in heat:
1. Whenever you can, opt into the coolest time of the day.
2. COVID aside, treadmills are AMAZING. They aren't lesser in any way.
3. Sip cold water, tiny bits at a time. Some of my runners freeze their water the night before and run with icy blocks in their hands.
4. Cold or frozen cloths will feel really nice (but heat up quickly, keep in a cooler and loop back to it frequently).
5. Remember that easy places a vanity metic. You aren'tlosing fitness or speed if heat slows you down- there is no training plan tamales you impervious to heat effects.
Switching gears a bit, what would you tell someone who's just getting started with running right now, especially if they started as a way to relieve pandemic-related stress? What might help someone who wants to make running a long-term part of their lives -- how can they keep it going as we get back to "normal," whatever that ends up being?
1. For many people, running has traditionally been a form of punishment. Even when we send kids to run laps for not paying attention (this happens at schools around Denver), I worry about what messages that kid is getting; these are the messages that I as a coach will have to unpack in my adult runners every day. Running CAN be self-care, but most of us have never been in a place where this was truly the case for any form of exercise. BE SURE that what you are doing makes your mind AND body feel relieved, not burdened.
2. You are perfectly made. I know that sounds cheesy, and the reference turns some people off, but I really truly believe it. You have everything you need. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to sell you something. Look for the people who want you to look inward to see your own badassery, not the ones who have you looking to them to receive validation. There are all kinds of people out there profiting from insecurity right now, be discerning.
3. Not being confident in what you are doing is a MAJOR advantage. Most people don't know what they are doing and will never be convinced. They will never learn. I have hope for you!
4. that said, have an idea of what's going to make you trusting and confident before you start asking questions. If the questions aren't leading you away from insecurity they're leading you towards the people I warned you about in #2.
5. The people who "go hard or go home" don't stay in the game long and go home alone.
6. Never forget this: walking is working. Walking is enough. If you forget why time on your feet matters, you're likely to lose perspective.
7. There is NO SUCH THING as too many running shoes.
8. Thick, soft socks will make you feet weak. Thinner is better, your toes need to be able to play & splay on runs.
9. FEET ARE EVERYTHING. Every day, balance barefoot on one leg while brushing your teeth in the morning, then on the other leg at night. This is valuable- it's proprioceptive and vestibular training which DOES help your running. Actions don't have to be big to have big impact, they need to compound.
10. You don't have to race. Ever.
11. you are a serious badass. I cannot imagine starting a new habit at my age (42). I cannot imagine picking up THIS habit at this age. Everything is easy when you are fit. Returning to a state of fitness and a fitness habit with muscles remembering how easy things used to be is one of THE hardest things you will ever do, and I am in AWE of you for wanting to do it. I'm equally in awe of someone who has no idea what they are getting into and are here, anyway. Know this every day: you matter, you are enough, and you are by no means behind. You belong here and we are THRILLED to have you.
I retired after 43 years of teaching and coaching last May. I have ran 11 marathons but none since 2011. Planning on one in Oct. I am currently logging about 50 miles per week, taking ever 4th day off, with 1 day of speed work per week. Is this too much, too little , suggestions?
Dear Ms. Fleming, thank you for taking part in today's discussion. Two questions: 1) when training for 1/2 marathons/marathons, how much, if any cross training do you do, and any particular cross training you recommend? 2) any diet advice, particularly how to balance carbs (for fuel) and protein (for muscle growth)?
1. very, very little. That's a personal thing, though! I don't think cross training is necessary for everyone. I also don't view strength/prehab as crosstraining, and I do 20 minutes of strength twice per week and 5 minutes of prehab each day.
At best, the whole "cross train" cue has become lip service and no one really knows why we do it anymore. At worst, it's permission to overtrain. The "GO HARD OR GO HOOOOOME!" mentality is too pervasive in America, few of us would be content with an easy bike ride or an easy swim, we are always wondering if we are doing "enough", because the question we ask ourselves is, "could I do more?" so if we can answer 'yes' then de facto we are NEVER doing enough. It's the wrong question. Start each session with, "What do I need to get?" and make sure you get exactly that without asking if it was enough. Recovery is on the training plan for a reason. Easy days are, too!
Final thought on this: a billion years ago, we were told by the cardiologist that the ideal cross training is stairmaster because it's the same demands on the cardiovasular system and body as jogging but in a different plane of motion so will be slower and more intentional (up vs forward). No one talks about this today, though. when I cross-train, I'm on stairs.
2. there are many, many themes out there about nutrition that all come back to the same question I reference above: "Did I get enough?" I don't trust any system that has you asking yourself that question.
The best advice I have is check your insurance, most health insurance or employer wellness programs offer full coverage for a few meetings each year with an approved RD. USE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You cannot get better than that. Without someone offering personalized guidance, you have no backstop against developing disordered habits that in the long run will do the opposite of what you're wanting to do.
Hi MK! I haven't run an organized virtual race yet -- I've run one that I came up with on my own, but that was just a spontaneous thing I did with Instagram friends -- so I wanted to know, is there anything you look for to find a quality virtual race? How do you weed out the quality races from the fly-by-night races? And how do you ensure you have fun and get something out of what might easily be a lonely experience?
If we don't know what we need to get out of 'real' races, then how in the world can we get what we need out of something that feels like a moldy consolation prize?
There are two kinds of in-person races: USATF sanctioned, and not USATF sanctioned. Most people I know wouldn't bother registering for a marathon that won't qualify them for Boston. Anything shorter than that, arguably, doesn't need the sanction as a selling point. We enter these races all the time- local fundraisers for schools and nonprofits and communities, national events to demonstrate solidarity with a cause and awareness (like cancer survivors).
So, we can look at virtual races like non-USATF sanctioned events (because they are).
Here's how I would look at it:
1. can I afford this event?
2. why do I want to do this?
3. how will I feel when I cross the finish line?
4. where does the $$ go? have I worked with the host or done one of their races before?
5. Do I GAF what the other racers do?
That last point is important- people cheat at 'real' events, expect cheating to happen online, too. If that really bothers you and could knock the shine off of an otherwise EPIC day, just make the charity donation or fundraise for the charity separately, don't join their virtual event.
In 2006, I had been chasing a goal time for 5 years. I didn't think I could call myself a 'real' runner until I hit that time goal. One day a friend pressured me into chasing them down a rail-to-trail in Snoqualmie that was exactly 26.2 miles long. I hadn't trained specifically for it. I hadn't spent much time thinking about it. I showed up and smashed that time that had been eluding me by 7 minutes.
That day changed my life, because it changed the way I looked at myself. I got what I needed.
I don't talk about this day much. Garmin wasn't around yet, so I can't prove that it happened....but I don't need to.
So, IMHO, especially with Garmin and Strava now, I don't think you need a virtual race at all to have a really amazing day. So, why do you want to enter one in the first place?
This is why we start with the (obtuse, maddening) question: What do you need to get? :)
Thank you, MK! This is a very, very thoughtful response and gives me lots to think about. You're so right about all of this (and I'm hearing some similar thoughts from readers.)
Final piece to this: as a former Wall St person, I trust NO ONE with money. Pull 990s for nonprofits (almost all races are). If they don't have 3+ years available, think twice.
Small business pop up all the time to steal money from vulnerable people. RunSignUp isn't in the business of validating races, so just because you trust the POS doesn't mean you can trust the hosting entity. MEANING: if you haven't heard of the event before AND they aren't raising $ for a charity you trust (ask the charity themselves if they agreed to the partnership), don't register.
I HAVE run virtual races in the past. All were fundraisers (most notably after the Houston Floods in 2017).
When it comes to recommending them, we have to look inward and ask first, "What do I Need to Get?" This gets to the heart of why we race in the first place.
Whatever you come up with hopefully answers question #2: What am I paying for?
I have this discussion with the Fitness Protection Runners ALL YEAR LONG. I used to work in live financial markets (www.linkedin.com/brooksmk) and I have a particular love for options: "An option has value until exercised or expired." Isn't that a lovely thought? Options are not a command, they make you feel safe so you can focus on other things, or they reserve a right to take action, later. You don't have to buy options at all!
I tell you that to tell you this: a race entry is an OPTION. Nothing more. Unless a race is SO LARGE you think it may sell out (or is lottery only, which frankly isn't that many races), or requires hella travel and logistics that are non-refundable, I encourage everyone to wait to sign up for races for as long as possible. SO MUCH can change in 20 weeks, and doing EVERYTHING RIGHT in a training cycle doesn't mean you're gonna get the race day experience you deserve. Knowing that going in empowers us to make the choices that suit us best. I'd much rather pay $20 extra for a later registration in a race I'm quite sure of than lose $160 on a bad experience that will leave my ego bruised for months afterwards (but I ran it anyway because cash money, yo).
I don't sign up for many races though. The person who is a 50-stater or a 2-halves-per-month-for-2020 chaser needs to get something different than I do, so we have a different decision and cost matrix. They get what they need no matter how the day goes, and they rebound from bad days much faster than I (and most of my clients) would.
SO, OMG WORDZZZZZ what does this have to do with virtual races?????????
I’d love to know how to get started when you are not fit. I can only run short distances. When I try to jog slowly, my form suffers and my calves hurt. I can tap into what I think is a decent form. It doesn’t cause me pain at any rate, but I can only do that for 0.5 mile. And it is not sprinting. How do I progress? Run at that good pace, then walk? Run then stop and catch my breath? Run then jog (stopping when calf pain is too much)? There is no information out there. Most people I’ve asked were fit when they started or they recommend couch to 5k, but I find all the stopping and starting to be hard on my joints (disclosure: I was very sedentary for years because of an autoimmune issue and I have chronic fatigue, so I’m starting from a rough spot)
I have Celiac Disease, so I FEEL YOU!!!! We thought I had CF for 2 years before I was finally diagnosed (this was in the 90s when we just didn't understand the nature of these conditions).
We offer a program called "Build" that would be a perfect fit for you; the next round opens in 4 weeks. Get on our mailing list (www.fitnessprotection.com/newsletter) and you'll get a heads-up when it opens.
The most important thing to consider, and I say this as gently as I possibly can, is that most plans out there were written by people who have "Fit privilege" - people who have likely always been the fast kids, who truly believe that if you just do what's written you'll be fine, and if you're not fine it's because you're not following the plan. They question you, not their plan, their assumptions, or their coaching cues.
I tell you that to tell you THIS: ain't nothing wrong with you. What's wrong is what you're being asked to do, what you're asking yourself to do.
Let's start by putting on a heart rate monitor and capping 'run' efforts at 140bpm. Anything harder than that just isn't necessary until we've built a LOT of strength to support your joints and ligaments; it will do more harm than good.
A great week would look like this:
Monday/Wednesday/Friday: 10 minute brisk walk, 10 minutes of {30 seconds jog (140 cap)x 2 minutes walk}, 10 minutes walk-however-you-like to ramp down.
Tuesday/Thursday: 20 minutes brisk walk (not so brisk you feel it in your shins though! if you do BACK OFF AND BE GENTLE! You can do just as much damage forcing a walk as you can a run)
Saturday: Walk for 65 minutes. (it's a great way to squeeze in podcasts! Try Wind of Change, it's ADDICTIVE!!!!!! Terrell has a great one, too!)
By meeting your body where it is at and moving from there, shrugging off expectations borne from judgments rather than assessments, you're going to feel better about what you do and want to do more of it. Consistency is key, and we DO move forward by patting ourselves on the back at our level! Why would you keep doing things that hurt your body and feelings?
I'd also like to learn more about form. Also, once I build up my speed, what are some habits to avoid so I don't slow down? How many times a week do you recommend tempo runs or other training to improve speed?
Here's the thing about speed- it isn't like a bird that can fly away if you don't hold onto it *just* right. The more you worry about 'losing' speed, the more likely you are to make choices that will impact the ability of your muscles to generate power. More isn't necessarily better, even though overachievers (like me) HATE it.
In a week, you really don't need more than two sessions that include max 20 minutes per session of speed elements. More than that for anyone who isn't trying to qualify for the Olympic Trials is likely to harm/inhibit performance rather than enhance it. Especially for distances we expect will take more than one hour to complete.
Fast twitch muscles, once developed or recruited, just need to be 'awakened'. You can do that on a daily basis with 4-6 strides (20 seconds of stride, 40 seconds of recovery). You really don't need more than that to retain gains. First thing to remember- DO NOT TREAT THESE LIKE SPRINTS. More isn't better. Controlled is better. Your peak pace doesn't need to be faster than your 5k pace, and if you're holding that pace for longer than 3-5 seconds in a stride you're overdoing it.
The biggest habit to avoid is racing your training. You need a huuuuuge cardiovascular base, and that comes from jogging. Tempo runs actually hurt it, they don't improve it (again, this holds for non-elite runners in races we expect will take longer than an hour to finish).
The second biggest habit is to keep your easy days easy so you can maximize benefits fom your harder workout days. Too many runners see a cross training day as bodypumppelotonYOOOOOOGA day, and end up doing 3 hard hours instead of resting!
Lots of great information here. I agree that a huge cardiovascular base is necessary. I so enjoy going long distances and often slip into a habit of jogging all the time. But I can definitely see how too much speed training could be counterproductive. Two sessions a week sounds like a great balance.
I'd ask how to improve my form. Since there are so many "styles" out there (forefoot, midfoot, hindfoot, pose method, etc) I'd like to figure out how to optimize my form to maximize my performance!
I tell my runners all the time, and it is true, that form is a function of strength. This is MADDENING, I know, but your body really is an incredible machine that responds perfectly to everything you ask it to do, in the moment you ask it to do it.
Here's what I mean: If your glutes aren't recruiting or firing, then you will overcompensate with a bigger step and arm swing. We can worry about the "what" and try to take smaller steps, but that's like trying to take smaller breaths- it isn't natural and won't ever become instinctual. If we focus on strengthening your glutes, and your TVA so your lower back is supported, THEN your form will change- you are less likely to take those big steps (that overload your shins and knees) because your body won't need them anymore. A lower cadence becomes natural and effortless (even if the glute exercises never do!)
I say: don't worry about the styles. I can talk about those studies all day and how they've been translated into not-so-useful coaching cues in recreational runners for years, but that's not your question. :) If you need more, I'm happy to go there. Those cues are designed to sell you shoes and books and methodology and keep you wondering if you're doing it 'right'. I'm here to make you confident in what you do every time you put your shoes on.
Know this: it's SO hard and SO unnatural to change footstrike, it's the last thing we do with elites. And we do it with sprinters, not even middle distance runners. Usain Bolt will complete something ridiculous like 14 steps in his 100m dash. If you're trying to beat Usain Bolt to win money and you've done EVERYTHING there is to do that's legal, then you'll be referred to the biomechanics people to work on footstrike and see if changes can be made. The rest of us....just don't need to go there.
When races DO start: When a simultaneous 5k and 10K race happens, where should I stand? Don’t want to be up close so I pace with the 5k-ers, but starting too far back causes its own problems. While I try to be disciplined about not starting too fast, where to start remains an issue. Any tips?
I have a question about hill workouts - well, a little introduction to that. I got the idea of doing something similar to what Sarah Canney is doing - she is climbing the height of Everest until the end of May on her treadmill and may be somewhere else, but it is very intense. I decided to do similar, but with my runs here in "flat" North Texas. My goal is from the start of lock down on March 13th until the end of July (my bday) to "climb" Everest as well. My question is: I do understand I am getting slower by running on hills and it really does not bother me much. But would you recommend to still do some speed work on hills with alternative long runs on hills? My goal is to climb of course, but I am curious if I can still work on speed etc. Thank you!
How are you getting slower on hills? We run hills to get stronger and increase efficiency, both of which will contribute to speed.
Hills will slow you down on the moment you are running the hill, but that resistance is where strength comes from.
I just started running again, and want to train for a 1/2 marathon. Any recommendations?
Know your why! Why running? Why a Half? What you need to get, and are you willing to wait awhile to get it?
Thank you. Just don’t want to screw a good thing up. Seems I get hurt doing speed work more than distance. Really trying to watch this time. Need a race to run however 👍
Feel really good. I do journal. The #1 thing I look forward to . Started running again back in August. Started with half mile a day.😂. I want to qualify for Boston again and keep my health at high level . I was hospitalized overnight with blood pressure problems dec 2018. I’m 63 and now it’s 125/75.
Amazing BP!!!!!!!
If it ain't broke, I say don't fix it!!! You sound badass AF!!!!!
Glad to hear that, Glen!
I am a big fan of the science behind Heart Rate Training - it just makes sense to gear your training based on how your body performs rather than "perceived" exertion or pace goals that might be too slow or fast for you on a particular day. I have twice used HR training successfully to get in shape after injuries/time off but once I am in shape and want to start getting faster for a marathon, I go back to the training plans I have used in the past that have nothing to do with HR because I don't know how to apply heart rate training principles beyond the building endurance stage of training. Would love some ideas on how to us my HR data to determine the pace for my tempo, interval and long runs each week. Hoping you have some knowledge in this area that you can share. My current training regime is 4 runs a week (interval, hills, tempo and long) with long bike rides the other 3 days and when gym pools are available i work in some swimming acouple times a week as well. Thanks in advance!
I have plenty! :) you'd do well in my Maintain program.
Short answer: 10k pace is the proxy for tempo pace on most plans, and the HR proxy is 2 minutes per mile faster than your 140pace, no more. 5k is 3minutes per mile faster, no more. For the half marathon you don't need anything faster than that.
Thank you! Follow up ... Using a set pace difference seems too arbitrary to me. 140hr pace for how long? for instance, i can probably do 8 min pace at 140 for a few miles but at some point hr will creep up.
Continuing with that example, if i do 8 min pace at 140 for 5 miles i should be able to drop 5 min miles in a 5K? I havent been close to 5 min pace for a mile since HS and even then I couldnt sustain that pace for a 5K.
? 140 is the heart rate cap for an easy effort run, meaning 140bpm. You should be able to do that for at least an hour without your heart rate creeping up (else you need to back way off and test the effort level out a few times).
Then, we factor in strength and there's no good formula for this. We start with generic benchmarks and move forward. The vast majority of runners I get are nowhere near an 8:00 mile for a jogging effort.
So, if your 140 pace/EE is an 8:00 mile, if I was coaching you 1:1 I would ask you to perform a Cooper test on a track, fully rested. Then we would have the paces etc we need.
Anyone I'm not training 1:1, I would say, "race a 5k and see what happens". Then we would work from there. I would need the HR and pace data from that race to determine what to work on from that point forward.
You are correct, a 5-min mile isn't reasonable! Proxies (approximations) are starting points for more nuanced conversations.
Gotcha. Bottom line, lots of variables and thus not an easy/simple answer to come up with... leading to me giving up trying to figure it out on my own and going with what I know :) ... one of these days I will get a coach to help me figure these things out. Thank you for your time and insight.
Yeah, basically once you cross the 9 minute per mile easy effort threshold, it’s time for 1:1 coaching. Unless what you are doing is working, that is! If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!
Did my 17 mile run today and wasn't planning to do your 140 test but it worked out that I did. When i was an hour in my avg pace was 825 and HR was right at 140. hadn't gone over yet. For the 17 miles my avg was 133bpm but that includes an 8 min stop when i ran into a friend and 4 water stops that lasted about 2 min each. So your advice is I need a coach to take things to the next level. I would be interested in talking to you about that. I just sent you a connection request on Linkedin.
Hoya Saxa!
You mean, if I have crossed 9 minute per mile let's say for half, it's better if I have 1:1 coaching?
What type of meal plan do you suggest? I would like to lose weight as I am training.
I neverrecommend losing weight in a training cycle. That needs tone a by-product, not a goal.
How are you handling running right now, MK, when we can't race? What are you aiming for, and what are some goals we can aim for when there are (largely) no races on the horizon for the foreseeable future, especially now that Boston has been cancelled?
My 4th pregnancy was REALLY difficult and I was bed-bound for most 2017-2018. Am still reBuilding from that! I didn't want to race this year, not the marathon distance anyway. Doing something familiar and beloved in a body that doesn't feel familiar, just isn't fun. I want to wait until I'm fitter to race again.
Boston isn't my list. I'm claustrophobic and that race has no fallback point! You're elbow to elbow like peloton THE WHOLE TIME!!!!
My personal goals:
1. Work on strength. This is intentionally vague.
2. Get back to a place where 6miles isn't satisfying and I want to keep going
3. Get back to doubles (I LOVEevening recovery runs!)
4. Feelsharp enough to race a half.
That's me, it all has to do with making sure when I DO race, it's satisfying. I can wait.
Now, for you:
Look at your goals for the year. If they can't exist without numbers or races, they aren't goals thatwould make you any happier even if you reach them.
Sounds crazy, right?
Let's say you qualify for Boston, then it's cancelled for Covid and you are distraught. Why? Wasn't your goal to qualify for Boston? What's your goal now, and once you reach, what next?
If a goal can't THINK (thoughtful heartfelt intelligent necessary and kind) it ain't SMART (bollox bollox bollox). Numbers can be gamed and manipulated. Goals need to be more finite, and now is a GREAT. Time to work on that!
Any suggestions on meal plans to prepare for a 1/2 marathon?
No, but here are some guidelines:
1. Most people have no idea what carbo-loading is or how it works. Proceed with extreme caution.
2. You don't need as much Gu or as many chomps as people will tell you.
3. Raw vegetables are Hard to digest, stick to cooked during race week.
4. White rice is terrific race week.
5. See if your health insurance will let you speak to an RD, most will cover it.
6. Your adrenal gland doesn't multitask. A training is cycle is no time to try to lose weight by limiting their food intake.
Any tricks for running in heat now that summer is nearly upon us? I've heard that a cold shower or swim before a run to lower your core temperature can help when running in heat, but I was wondering if there are any other tips or tricks I'm missing? Heat is killing my run times!
Your body is REALLY good at adapting. Meaning, any effects from that cold shower will disappear pretty quickly; your adrenal gland is too good at maintaining homeostasis, and cold core temperatures are a bigger threat than overheating (your skin would cook long before your insides would).
Best bets in heat:
1. Whenever you can, opt into the coolest time of the day.
2. COVID aside, treadmills are AMAZING. They aren't lesser in any way.
3. Sip cold water, tiny bits at a time. Some of my runners freeze their water the night before and run with icy blocks in their hands.
4. Cold or frozen cloths will feel really nice (but heat up quickly, keep in a cooler and loop back to it frequently).
5. Remember that easy places a vanity metic. You aren'tlosing fitness or speed if heat slows you down- there is no training plan tamales you impervious to heat effects.
Mine too, Judith!
I'm here all day! Don't hesitate! :) I LOVE Q&A from runners!
Switching gears a bit, what would you tell someone who's just getting started with running right now, especially if they started as a way to relieve pandemic-related stress? What might help someone who wants to make running a long-term part of their lives -- how can they keep it going as we get back to "normal," whatever that ends up being?
1. For many people, running has traditionally been a form of punishment. Even when we send kids to run laps for not paying attention (this happens at schools around Denver), I worry about what messages that kid is getting; these are the messages that I as a coach will have to unpack in my adult runners every day. Running CAN be self-care, but most of us have never been in a place where this was truly the case for any form of exercise. BE SURE that what you are doing makes your mind AND body feel relieved, not burdened.
2. You are perfectly made. I know that sounds cheesy, and the reference turns some people off, but I really truly believe it. You have everything you need. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to sell you something. Look for the people who want you to look inward to see your own badassery, not the ones who have you looking to them to receive validation. There are all kinds of people out there profiting from insecurity right now, be discerning.
3. Not being confident in what you are doing is a MAJOR advantage. Most people don't know what they are doing and will never be convinced. They will never learn. I have hope for you!
4. that said, have an idea of what's going to make you trusting and confident before you start asking questions. If the questions aren't leading you away from insecurity they're leading you towards the people I warned you about in #2.
5. The people who "go hard or go home" don't stay in the game long and go home alone.
6. Never forget this: walking is working. Walking is enough. If you forget why time on your feet matters, you're likely to lose perspective.
7. There is NO SUCH THING as too many running shoes.
8. Thick, soft socks will make you feet weak. Thinner is better, your toes need to be able to play & splay on runs.
9. FEET ARE EVERYTHING. Every day, balance barefoot on one leg while brushing your teeth in the morning, then on the other leg at night. This is valuable- it's proprioceptive and vestibular training which DOES help your running. Actions don't have to be big to have big impact, they need to compound.
10. You don't have to race. Ever.
11. you are a serious badass. I cannot imagine starting a new habit at my age (42). I cannot imagine picking up THIS habit at this age. Everything is easy when you are fit. Returning to a state of fitness and a fitness habit with muscles remembering how easy things used to be is one of THE hardest things you will ever do, and I am in AWE of you for wanting to do it. I'm equally in awe of someone who has no idea what they are getting into and are here, anyway. Know this every day: you matter, you are enough, and you are by no means behind. You belong here and we are THRILLED to have you.
Special thanks for #7!!!
I love every word of this!!!! Thank you, MK!
My pleasure!!! :) :) :) Thanks for the amazing prompt!
I retired after 43 years of teaching and coaching last May. I have ran 11 marathons but none since 2011. Planning on one in Oct. I am currently logging about 50 miles per week, taking ever 4th day off, with 1 day of speed work per week. Is this too much, too little , suggestions?
It depends! Tell me more!
1. How do you feel?
2. are you logging those feelings every day immediately after each run?
3. do you enjoy the running?
4. how much were you running before this training cycle began?
5. what do you need to get out of this race?
Dear Ms. Fleming, thank you for taking part in today's discussion. Two questions: 1) when training for 1/2 marathons/marathons, how much, if any cross training do you do, and any particular cross training you recommend? 2) any diet advice, particularly how to balance carbs (for fuel) and protein (for muscle growth)?
1. very, very little. That's a personal thing, though! I don't think cross training is necessary for everyone. I also don't view strength/prehab as crosstraining, and I do 20 minutes of strength twice per week and 5 minutes of prehab each day.
At best, the whole "cross train" cue has become lip service and no one really knows why we do it anymore. At worst, it's permission to overtrain. The "GO HARD OR GO HOOOOOME!" mentality is too pervasive in America, few of us would be content with an easy bike ride or an easy swim, we are always wondering if we are doing "enough", because the question we ask ourselves is, "could I do more?" so if we can answer 'yes' then de facto we are NEVER doing enough. It's the wrong question. Start each session with, "What do I need to get?" and make sure you get exactly that without asking if it was enough. Recovery is on the training plan for a reason. Easy days are, too!
Final thought on this: a billion years ago, we were told by the cardiologist that the ideal cross training is stairmaster because it's the same demands on the cardiovasular system and body as jogging but in a different plane of motion so will be slower and more intentional (up vs forward). No one talks about this today, though. when I cross-train, I'm on stairs.
2. there are many, many themes out there about nutrition that all come back to the same question I reference above: "Did I get enough?" I don't trust any system that has you asking yourself that question.
The best advice I have is check your insurance, most health insurance or employer wellness programs offer full coverage for a few meetings each year with an approved RD. USE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You cannot get better than that. Without someone offering personalized guidance, you have no backstop against developing disordered habits that in the long run will do the opposite of what you're wanting to do.
Thank you again!
Hi MK! I haven't run an organized virtual race yet -- I've run one that I came up with on my own, but that was just a spontaneous thing I did with Instagram friends -- so I wanted to know, is there anything you look for to find a quality virtual race? How do you weed out the quality races from the fly-by-night races? And how do you ensure you have fun and get something out of what might easily be a lonely experience?
If we don't know what we need to get out of 'real' races, then how in the world can we get what we need out of something that feels like a moldy consolation prize?
There are two kinds of in-person races: USATF sanctioned, and not USATF sanctioned. Most people I know wouldn't bother registering for a marathon that won't qualify them for Boston. Anything shorter than that, arguably, doesn't need the sanction as a selling point. We enter these races all the time- local fundraisers for schools and nonprofits and communities, national events to demonstrate solidarity with a cause and awareness (like cancer survivors).
So, we can look at virtual races like non-USATF sanctioned events (because they are).
Here's how I would look at it:
1. can I afford this event?
2. why do I want to do this?
3. how will I feel when I cross the finish line?
4. where does the $$ go? have I worked with the host or done one of their races before?
5. Do I GAF what the other racers do?
That last point is important- people cheat at 'real' events, expect cheating to happen online, too. If that really bothers you and could knock the shine off of an otherwise EPIC day, just make the charity donation or fundraise for the charity separately, don't join their virtual event.
In 2006, I had been chasing a goal time for 5 years. I didn't think I could call myself a 'real' runner until I hit that time goal. One day a friend pressured me into chasing them down a rail-to-trail in Snoqualmie that was exactly 26.2 miles long. I hadn't trained specifically for it. I hadn't spent much time thinking about it. I showed up and smashed that time that had been eluding me by 7 minutes.
That day changed my life, because it changed the way I looked at myself. I got what I needed.
I don't talk about this day much. Garmin wasn't around yet, so I can't prove that it happened....but I don't need to.
So, IMHO, especially with Garmin and Strava now, I don't think you need a virtual race at all to have a really amazing day. So, why do you want to enter one in the first place?
This is why we start with the (obtuse, maddening) question: What do you need to get? :)
Thank you, MK! This is a very, very thoughtful response and gives me lots to think about. You're so right about all of this (and I'm hearing some similar thoughts from readers.)
Final piece to this: as a former Wall St person, I trust NO ONE with money. Pull 990s for nonprofits (almost all races are). If they don't have 3+ years available, think twice.
Small business pop up all the time to steal money from vulnerable people. RunSignUp isn't in the business of validating races, so just because you trust the POS doesn't mean you can trust the hosting entity. MEANING: if you haven't heard of the event before AND they aren't raising $ for a charity you trust (ask the charity themselves if they agreed to the partnership), don't register.
"POS" means POINT OF SALE", to be clear!!!!!!! LOL!!!!
I HAVE run virtual races in the past. All were fundraisers (most notably after the Houston Floods in 2017).
When it comes to recommending them, we have to look inward and ask first, "What do I Need to Get?" This gets to the heart of why we race in the first place.
Whatever you come up with hopefully answers question #2: What am I paying for?
I have this discussion with the Fitness Protection Runners ALL YEAR LONG. I used to work in live financial markets (www.linkedin.com/brooksmk) and I have a particular love for options: "An option has value until exercised or expired." Isn't that a lovely thought? Options are not a command, they make you feel safe so you can focus on other things, or they reserve a right to take action, later. You don't have to buy options at all!
I tell you that to tell you this: a race entry is an OPTION. Nothing more. Unless a race is SO LARGE you think it may sell out (or is lottery only, which frankly isn't that many races), or requires hella travel and logistics that are non-refundable, I encourage everyone to wait to sign up for races for as long as possible. SO MUCH can change in 20 weeks, and doing EVERYTHING RIGHT in a training cycle doesn't mean you're gonna get the race day experience you deserve. Knowing that going in empowers us to make the choices that suit us best. I'd much rather pay $20 extra for a later registration in a race I'm quite sure of than lose $160 on a bad experience that will leave my ego bruised for months afterwards (but I ran it anyway because cash money, yo).
I don't sign up for many races though. The person who is a 50-stater or a 2-halves-per-month-for-2020 chaser needs to get something different than I do, so we have a different decision and cost matrix. They get what they need no matter how the day goes, and they rebound from bad days much faster than I (and most of my clients) would.
SO, OMG WORDZZZZZ what does this have to do with virtual races?????????
OK, buckle up....you're gonna get an MK-sized answer on this. :)
I’d love to know how to get started when you are not fit. I can only run short distances. When I try to jog slowly, my form suffers and my calves hurt. I can tap into what I think is a decent form. It doesn’t cause me pain at any rate, but I can only do that for 0.5 mile. And it is not sprinting. How do I progress? Run at that good pace, then walk? Run then stop and catch my breath? Run then jog (stopping when calf pain is too much)? There is no information out there. Most people I’ve asked were fit when they started or they recommend couch to 5k, but I find all the stopping and starting to be hard on my joints (disclosure: I was very sedentary for years because of an autoimmune issue and I have chronic fatigue, so I’m starting from a rough spot)
I have Celiac Disease, so I FEEL YOU!!!! We thought I had CF for 2 years before I was finally diagnosed (this was in the 90s when we just didn't understand the nature of these conditions).
We offer a program called "Build" that would be a perfect fit for you; the next round opens in 4 weeks. Get on our mailing list (www.fitnessprotection.com/newsletter) and you'll get a heads-up when it opens.
The most important thing to consider, and I say this as gently as I possibly can, is that most plans out there were written by people who have "Fit privilege" - people who have likely always been the fast kids, who truly believe that if you just do what's written you'll be fine, and if you're not fine it's because you're not following the plan. They question you, not their plan, their assumptions, or their coaching cues.
I tell you that to tell you THIS: ain't nothing wrong with you. What's wrong is what you're being asked to do, what you're asking yourself to do.
Let's start by putting on a heart rate monitor and capping 'run' efforts at 140bpm. Anything harder than that just isn't necessary until we've built a LOT of strength to support your joints and ligaments; it will do more harm than good.
A great week would look like this:
Monday/Wednesday/Friday: 10 minute brisk walk, 10 minutes of {30 seconds jog (140 cap)x 2 minutes walk}, 10 minutes walk-however-you-like to ramp down.
Tuesday/Thursday: 20 minutes brisk walk (not so brisk you feel it in your shins though! if you do BACK OFF AND BE GENTLE! You can do just as much damage forcing a walk as you can a run)
Saturday: Walk for 65 minutes. (it's a great way to squeeze in podcasts! Try Wind of Change, it's ADDICTIVE!!!!!! Terrell has a great one, too!)
By meeting your body where it is at and moving from there, shrugging off expectations borne from judgments rather than assessments, you're going to feel better about what you do and want to do more of it. Consistency is key, and we DO move forward by patting ourselves on the back at our level! Why would you keep doing things that hurt your body and feelings?
I'd also like to learn more about form. Also, once I build up my speed, what are some habits to avoid so I don't slow down? How many times a week do you recommend tempo runs or other training to improve speed?
Here's the thing about speed- it isn't like a bird that can fly away if you don't hold onto it *just* right. The more you worry about 'losing' speed, the more likely you are to make choices that will impact the ability of your muscles to generate power. More isn't necessarily better, even though overachievers (like me) HATE it.
In a week, you really don't need more than two sessions that include max 20 minutes per session of speed elements. More than that for anyone who isn't trying to qualify for the Olympic Trials is likely to harm/inhibit performance rather than enhance it. Especially for distances we expect will take more than one hour to complete.
Fast twitch muscles, once developed or recruited, just need to be 'awakened'. You can do that on a daily basis with 4-6 strides (20 seconds of stride, 40 seconds of recovery). You really don't need more than that to retain gains. First thing to remember- DO NOT TREAT THESE LIKE SPRINTS. More isn't better. Controlled is better. Your peak pace doesn't need to be faster than your 5k pace, and if you're holding that pace for longer than 3-5 seconds in a stride you're overdoing it.
The biggest habit to avoid is racing your training. You need a huuuuuge cardiovascular base, and that comes from jogging. Tempo runs actually hurt it, they don't improve it (again, this holds for non-elite runners in races we expect will take longer than an hour to finish).
The second biggest habit is to keep your easy days easy so you can maximize benefits fom your harder workout days. Too many runners see a cross training day as bodypumppelotonYOOOOOOGA day, and end up doing 3 hard hours instead of resting!
Lots of great information here. I agree that a huge cardiovascular base is necessary. I so enjoy going long distances and often slip into a habit of jogging all the time. But I can definitely see how too much speed training could be counterproductive. Two sessions a week sounds like a great balance.
honestly, jogging all the time is fine if you throw in strides. You won't regress anywhere near as much as you think you will.
It is fun to run faster as well. Sounds like I just have to be careful not to overdo it.
I'd ask how to improve my form. Since there are so many "styles" out there (forefoot, midfoot, hindfoot, pose method, etc) I'd like to figure out how to optimize my form to maximize my performance!
Work smarter not harder, right?
I tell my runners all the time, and it is true, that form is a function of strength. This is MADDENING, I know, but your body really is an incredible machine that responds perfectly to everything you ask it to do, in the moment you ask it to do it.
Here's what I mean: If your glutes aren't recruiting or firing, then you will overcompensate with a bigger step and arm swing. We can worry about the "what" and try to take smaller steps, but that's like trying to take smaller breaths- it isn't natural and won't ever become instinctual. If we focus on strengthening your glutes, and your TVA so your lower back is supported, THEN your form will change- you are less likely to take those big steps (that overload your shins and knees) because your body won't need them anymore. A lower cadence becomes natural and effortless (even if the glute exercises never do!)
I say: don't worry about the styles. I can talk about those studies all day and how they've been translated into not-so-useful coaching cues in recreational runners for years, but that's not your question. :) If you need more, I'm happy to go there. Those cues are designed to sell you shoes and books and methodology and keep you wondering if you're doing it 'right'. I'm here to make you confident in what you do every time you put your shoes on.
Know this: it's SO hard and SO unnatural to change footstrike, it's the last thing we do with elites. And we do it with sprinters, not even middle distance runners. Usain Bolt will complete something ridiculous like 14 steps in his 100m dash. If you're trying to beat Usain Bolt to win money and you've done EVERYTHING there is to do that's legal, then you'll be referred to the biomechanics people to work on footstrike and see if changes can be made. The rest of us....just don't need to go there.
Thank you SO much! This is exactly what I needed to hear! I'll get started on squats and weight training then! :)
don't forget your little glutes!!!! Isometric exercises are JUST AS IMPORTANT!
Very excited to participate today! Ask me anything! Ask me EVERYTHING!